Question Time!

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno) 04/28/2014 at 21:48 • Filed to: None

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What car do you like that everyone else seems to hate?

I'm going to say the Dodge Avenger.

I've expressed my liking for the Avenger before in posts many moons ago. It's an attractive car that produces a good amount of power, decent driving dynamics, and costs relatively little for what you get.

But, people still express plenty of hate for this car.

"It's too ugly."

"The interior feels cheap."

"It drives like shit."

I really don't see any of these observations. But it's still one of the most hated cars produced right now. But I'll keep defending it until production ceases later this year.

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:50

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PatBateman > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:50

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I want this truck. Badly.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 21:51

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I really think this is an attractive car. It's just so different than what Lexus is known for: Boring.

JR1 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:51

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Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:52

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Is that why people hate it? That makes no sense.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > JR1 04/28/2014 at 21:53

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The Sebring was one of the last affordable convertibles.

The Thunderbird is cool. I don't care what anyone says.

D > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 21:53

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I saw one of those today (it was white, too) and liked it a lot. That sweeping line is magnificent.

Brian Silvestro > D 04/28/2014 at 21:54

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I know! Seeing one in person is mindblowing. It's really good-looking.

RotaryLover > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:54

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This!

It was my first car...that's why. Even though that I called it a POS.

jkm7680 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:54

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Please don't kill me. But really, the last Gm manual SUV.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 21:54

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I feel like that's why. People just aren't used to exciting looking Lexuses, so they call it ugly.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:54

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If done properly, I love these.

But I'd say mine is probably my first car, which was a 2002 Dodge Neon ACR. Loud, obnoxious, raspy, boring from the outside, severely underpowered, and front-wheel-drive. The only reason I bought mine was for the fact that it was an SCCA racecar-turned-roadcar and it retained many of it's racing appearance and parts, despite being rather pleasant to DD.

That car handled like nothing else. Period.

JR1 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:54

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You know what? I like you and your opinions.

D > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:54

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The Yaris. I finally got the chance to drive one and I still love it... you bet I was squealing those economy-grade tires around every corner

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 21:55

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Because it's far too busy with different lines shooting off in all directions and then random curves. It's ugly as sin.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > jkm7680 04/28/2014 at 21:55

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I love these things! It was so out there. Manual Transmission, 5 cylinder engine, and it was pretty small compared to other GM SUVs of the time.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:55

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Jetta 2.5: People say "ooh, it's a jetta, yawn!" but it's actually a great car!
VW Eos: A 200hp, 6MT hardtop convertible for just over $30,000? How can you NOT like that!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:55

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SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 21:56

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I agree with you, Brian. I love the new ISs. Especially the IS F. But people just hate Lexus for being boring (among other things that are largely based in the Lexus of the 90's and early 00's), and since the IS is a Lexus, they hate the IS too. These are actually a blast to drive, and look great but a lot of people are pretty stuck in their habit of hating on Lexus for being potatoes and for loving Acura for being fun and sporty.

Uh, look at their current lineups, people. Roles have reversed.

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:56

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Logansteno: Bought a VW? > RotaryLover 04/28/2014 at 21:57

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Everyone calls their first car a POS, then they look back on it and think "Shit, that was actually a decent car."

Brian Silvestro > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 04/28/2014 at 21:57

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I....... disagree!

Brian Silvestro > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/28/2014 at 21:57

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I came to a realization recently that I really like Lexus. They make a lot of amazing cars.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 04/28/2014 at 21:58

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Neons handle like no cheap car should.

Someone Else's Projects > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:58

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Specifically, the Aero. Because it's born from 'Vettes.

jkm7680 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:58

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Yay, I'm not the only one.

No clue why they got so much flak. It was an honest SUV, not to Bro-Y or obnoxious. I guess the stereotypical owners set the stage for these. Wish they sold better.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 21:59

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/sarcasm

jkm7680 > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 21:59

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"Predator, that you?"

"Oh. Sorry just a Lexus"

thedevilinside > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:00

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and My favorite Vapor Ware currently:

Milky > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 04/28/2014 at 22:01

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These seem actually rather well liked, or maybe a polar 50/50 split.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > D 04/28/2014 at 22:01

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That's the fun of driving those underpowered eco-boxes, you drive at 10/10ths constantly.

Rainbow > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:02

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The Volt because it does what the Prius does only so much better and, if more people would love it, maybe we'd be rid of that horrific smugmobile. The Leaf because it's the poor man's Tesla.

I just wish they'd listen to me and make a Volt SS and a Leaf R.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 04/28/2014 at 22:03

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I thought this got positive reviews so far from people? I know I'm excited for it.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 22:03

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This. It's exactly this.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 22:04

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Yup. Okay, I'm going to say something and I don't want it to count as a strike against my Jalop card.

For the last week I've been driving a borrowed 2013 (I think) Lexus RX450h and I... I don't hate it. There. I said it.

The interior is a really nice place to be and it cruises super comfortably. It even has decent pick up (compared to my Jeep) and has a great sound system. I'm still slightly embarrassed to be seen in it, but its actually a pretty nice car. Plus, I went from getting 17mpg in my wrangler to 32mpg in the Lexus. My bank account aint mad.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 22:04

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Card.

M54B30 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:04

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I like the Avenger too - moreso when compared to its replacement the Dart. The Avenger is cheaper, looks better, has more features and better options and is a much better value.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Someone Else's Projects 04/28/2014 at 22:05

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The best of the GMT360 trucks.

Brian Silvestro > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/28/2014 at 22:05

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All cars are nice and comfortable nowadays, it's the ones that stand out that matter.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > jkm7680 04/28/2014 at 22:05

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This is the only reason Hummer should have stayed around, this and the H3T.

Brian Silvestro > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 04/28/2014 at 22:06

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nnnnnnnnno

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:06

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Easy, mine:

Ducky > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:08

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my first car was a 99 civic, which was an awesome car until the auto tranny blew up. then it was a POS. i'd probably still be driving that thing if it had a bulletproof honda manual gearbox.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Rainbow 04/28/2014 at 22:09

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The Volt does Prius better than the Prius. I thinking the fact that the hybrid system it uses it so different than the one everyone was used to that caused people to stay away.

The Leaf is pretty nifty, but I'm not too sold on the looks.

RotaryLover > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:09

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It wasn't decent at all...had to pay 100$ per week for gas in 2009, the rear calipers kept jamming each year. It made all sorts of sounds. The brakes sucked bad and I wasn't confident at all at driving over 120 kmh on the highway. Boy oh boy what a shaky ride it was. But it was fun to drive...oddly.

midengineer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:09

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I've always had a thing for these, got to ride in one as a kid.

lone_liberal > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:10

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Flex Ecoboost. I think it would be a fantastic road trip vehicle.

jkm7680 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:10

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Love the H3t also!

crowmolly > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:10

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LT1 Trans Am.

Often mocked by those who have never owned or driven an LT1.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > M54B30 04/28/2014 at 22:11

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You can get Avengers with 100 more horsepower for less than a Dart! Something's wrong with that equation.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 22:12

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I mean, for the price its probably one of the most comfortable SUVs I've driven. I borrowed my buddy's TDI Touareg a couple of weeks ago and I liked the way the Lexus was inside a lot more. It just feels a little more expensive and everything is very ergonomically and luxurious... But then I get out of the car and duck my head a little bit. It certainly stands out as the most expensive car I've been embarrassed to be seen driving, so there's that.

Sn210 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:13

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future classic

M54B30 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:18

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exactly. They hoped people would be willing to pay a premium for European driving dynamics but we have seen that it isn't happening. Killing the Avenger is a mistake - buyers won't go to Darts, they'll buy Fiestas and Rios.

fhrblig > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:25

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Still in production: the Mitsubishi Mirage. I don't know why I like it, I just like it.

Not in production anymore: Dodge Caliber.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:27

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Oh, there are so many.

The Infiniti QX,

Lincoln Blackwood,

Mercedes G65 AMG

Acura ZDX

Chrysler 300M

Mini Countryman

and so on. There are more.

carcrasher88 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:37

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I'm a big fan of the Juke, including the way it looks.

Just needs more manual transmission/AWD combo across the board.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > lone_liberal 04/28/2014 at 22:41

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Modern day interpretation of the station wagon. Need more rear facing seat though.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > M54B30 04/28/2014 at 22:42

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Both which have European driving dynamics for about $5,000 less.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > fhrblig 04/28/2014 at 22:43

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I thought I was literally the only person who liked the Caliber!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/28/2014 at 22:43

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I like all these cars.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > carcrasher88 04/28/2014 at 22:45

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The Juke is the most funky looking car on sale today. Plus Nismo.

PICKLEBOY > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:46

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9th gen Toyota Corolla

personally; arguably the last corolla with remotely any steering feel or throttle response (not saying it's good but before they got notoriously numb)

I say this because it's my 2nd car and after driving many different cars it's actually not as bad as people make it out to be, but I can't say that about the 10th gen corolla which sucks compared to the 9th; interior was downgraded and handling even worse

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > midengineer 04/28/2014 at 22:48

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This thing was just awesome solely because it made it to production. Needed a better engine, but god it was cool.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PICKLEBOY 04/28/2014 at 22:51

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Any steering response is better than what's present now. I think the 11th generation with the 9th's dynamics would be a good car actually.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:53

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OK, so you've said Avenger, and I'm gonna chime in with another Chryco product, the Cloud cars. Cirrus, Stratus and Breeze... Now it's true, they fell apart pretty well, and weren't very well put together to begin with, but they were fairly attractive for the time, had useful amounts of interior space and with the 2.4l and manual the Stratus was actually pretty OK to drive. Buddy of mine had a '98 Stratus with the 2.4/5speed as his first manual trans car, and when it wasn't broken, it was actually pretty fun. Good clutch, decent shifter, OK handling, enough power, quite comfortable. An entirely cromulent cheap, attractive, midsize sedan with a little spunk.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 22:54

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Yeah, the IS just confuses the public. It's not conservatively styled like the ES and RX. It's really a proper driver's car when you get the 350 F-Sport.

For those who associate Lexus with bland, it's so shocking they can't compute.

That said, Toyota's electronic throttle response is terrible and it drives me nuts as I'm used to a throttle cable equipped car. I wish they'd offer a manual again, but I know that's not going to happen.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 04/28/2014 at 22:54

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I know a lot of people that have/had Cloud cars and have loved them. I really like the R/T Stratus.

Skif6996 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 22:55

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Chryslers, in general.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Skif6996 04/28/2014 at 22:57

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I feel like that about all of ChryslerCo's products. They're still trying to get their image together as a good company again, yet I've stood by them this entire time. Since they fell apart to them coming back swinging.

Skif6996 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 23:02

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I have an '03 Stratus R/T coupe. I bought it new and it has been good to me. It handles well and the 200hp and torques have made me happy. The only issue is my dash cover shrank and pulled away from all the vents and windshield. That annoys me. Other than that, no complaints.

Skif6996 > crowmolly 04/28/2014 at 23:02

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People hate these?

crowmolly > Skif6996 04/28/2014 at 23:03

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Yes. Mostly due to the motor and bad rep the Optispark has.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Skif6996 04/28/2014 at 23:06

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That's not bad for an 11 year old car.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Brian Silvestro 04/28/2014 at 23:21

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People hate this? I don't get that...what's not to like, much less hate?

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Rainbow 04/28/2014 at 23:22

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I have to admit, I like both of these in...ways.

*whispers sheepishly that he might have a Leaf in the family*

Stef Schrader > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 23:53

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My Lancer. It's a brilliant car. No-nonsense for a modern production car. Few nannies that are easily defeat-able. The GTS trim has a fat rear sway in stock trim and it's not hard to toss around the rump like a total hooligan.

Look, do you folks believe all this talk about wanting a simple hoonable hoonable, or are you going to whine about scratchy plastic and nav systems? Because I can pretty much hose the mud off that scratchy plastic and keep going. Which rules.

I think the Avenger's on the same platform—I can see how it'd be okay. I'm no fan of the styling, but I get it.

The other one? The Cayenne. I hate that I sort of want a Cayenne. Hate. They look like a mommywagon. But they can tow a racecar. They can play racecar, too. I saw one entered in a DE last weekend, for Pete's sake. Surely that means it'd have a low enough center of gravity that I wouldn't panic and have horrible flashbacks to Dad's Exploder being driven in anger. (That thing was terrifying.) Shoot, that dang Pooperwagen went to Dakar. Dakar! Stop comparing it to a Lexus Eggthing or your grandma's FWD SRX and let me buy my tow beast. (UGH I HATE THAT I'M THINKING PRACTICAL THOUGHTS AND WANT TO BUY A TOWBEAST. UGHHHHHHRRRNNGGHHHHPHRRT)

Stef Schrader > fhrblig 04/28/2014 at 23:55

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I totally dig the Mirage.

Jacob > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 23:56

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This guy. Right here. Parents got a used one for my sister and myself in 2010ish. She took it to college and I took it to college when she graduated. It isn't a great car, but I don't believe it is as bad as many people like to make it out to be. Plus, holy shit can this thing gobble up cargo. My college nickname was Quinn, so we called the car "The Quinnessential." I had it for a little over a year until my grandfather gifted me his minivan when he stopped driving. My sister now drives the Caliber and it has about 90k problem free miles now.

Speaking of said minivan...

I love my van.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Stef Schrader 04/29/2014 at 00:03

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The Lancer is just a cool looking car that can easily been hooned like you said. I actually like how spartan they are, just less to go wrong later. My dads truck is full of those same scratchy plastics, and I'm pretty sure if you covered the radio face, you could actually rinse it out. I'm just sad the Evo is dying.

I like the newer Cayennes. They fixed the dopey front face. It's a pretty truck that can haul in both senses. I've seen plenty of them used in auto-x and track events. Sure, they won't be the fastest thing out there, but they'll do damn well for being a heavy SUV.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jacob 04/29/2014 at 00:07

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The Caliber wasn't nearly as bad as everyone says they are. You could load those things up with all sorts of toys and extras. Plus manual transmisson. Sure the interior wasn't the best, but it got the job done and wasnt bad for the price bracket the car was in. They can swallow a shit ton of stuff though.

P5guy now GTIguy > jkm7680 04/29/2014 at 00:28

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I'be driven the manual version of these and it actually is a lot fun less in a dynamic way but more in a its a silly vehicle way

handsoff > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/29/2014 at 01:01

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Suzuki SX4 and mkIV Golfs. Also, pretty sure the cloud cars with manual trannys were 2.0s. And yes, I like them too

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > jkm7680 04/29/2014 at 01:35

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Better yet, I learned something new thanks to you. Didn't know these were available with manuals! Respect.

QCGoose > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/29/2014 at 03:37

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Agreed. The same is also true for the 1st gen Focus. They have excellent handling and feedback and are shockingly fun to drive.

QCGoose > lone_liberal 04/29/2014 at 03:48

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It IS a fantastic roadtrip vehicle. Super comfortable, cavernous, and it doesn't suck at all to drive. The space afforded to the second-row passengers especially, specifically the vast amount of legroom, is nothing short of awesome.

For years now I've labeled the Flex "best cross-country vehicle". Seriously, I LOVE these things.

Alex B > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 04/29/2014 at 07:51

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I do too! Which Year?

Alex B > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/29/2014 at 07:52

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I liked the Calibers looks. Much better than if they had made it a sedan.

Alex B > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/29/2014 at 07:54

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I 100% agree with that list.

PushToStart > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/29/2014 at 08:37

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Too many people don't like this car. Is it my favorite Ferrari? No, but it's a really damn cool car, and if I had the means, I'd buy one to DD.

spanfucker retire bitch > Rainbow 04/29/2014 at 08:40

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I'm in absolute agreement with the Volt. I love that car. It's easily the best economy Hybrid/EREV on the road today. At that price, nothing can touch its 30-mile electric range.

spanfucker retire bitch > M54B30 04/29/2014 at 08:42

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But...it's only cheaper than the Dart because it's such a shit car that even Dodge realizes it, and heavily, heavily incentivizes it.

spanfucker retire bitch > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/29/2014 at 08:43

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I still think the ZDX is the best looking vehicle in Acura's lineup, but I'm not sure I "like" the vehicle beyond just its looks.

thebigbossyboss > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/29/2014 at 08:44

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spanfucker retire bitch > PushToStart 04/29/2014 at 08:46

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It is my favorite Ferrari, by far. I've never liked Ferraris. They've just never been a brand of car I aspired to or wanted to own. But the FF? I want it, and I want it badly.

Meatcoma > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/29/2014 at 08:50

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I feel the same way you do. I like the Avenger's looks.

Meatcoma > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/29/2014 at 08:50

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My wife loves the thunderbird, I however do not.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Meatcoma 04/29/2014 at 08:53

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The only thing I don't like about it is that little black piece of plastic behind the rear windows. But that's on a ton of new cars nowadays.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > lone_liberal 04/29/2014 at 09:07

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It is a fantastic road trip vehicle

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PushToStart 04/29/2014 at 09:15

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How can you hate a sensible Ferrari!? Put those rear seats down and you have enough room to take a decent amount of luggage on a trip for two. It can do that while still being a proper Ferrari in the sense that it's a joy to drive.

M54B30 > spanfucker retire bitch 04/29/2014 at 11:00

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but the dart isn't worth paying extra for so why not?